this is an established principle and supreme court law. the establishment clause which basically separates church and state and looks at the purpose of the activity, whether it is encouraging or discouraging. let me finish. finally, when you basically have a program in that program is essentially is neutral which is what the district is doing, that does not mean that it violates the constitution. >> you cannot promote one religion or the other. >> if you have it in a classroom situation and they're is a cultural components, it is permissible. if it isn entertainment type situation where people are excluded, then it is going too far. >> they're not excluded. they are invited. gerri: something that is pervasive in our culture. that is what i don't get. >> but the pervasiveness of the culture does not have to be done in schools. all of these other times to practice. >> you just said practice religion. that is not what is happening. they're just trying to sing some carols. is that really practicing religion? >> it is a sponsorship of religion.